In Front of the Telly

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In Front of the Telly

The Stories We Are Told

February 14, 2024 • ThisGirl TV • Season 5 • Episode 2

Angel and Jacob talk about storytelling as we recognize through movies made by Spike Lee, Killers of the Flower Moon, and why we both want infinite diversity in infinite combinations in the stories we consume.

Find Jacob on Patreon, on TikTok, and Instagram.

Find Angel at In Front of the Telly on Twitter, her blog In Front of the Telly, or on Facebook at In Front of the Telly.

Countdown can be found via TVMaze.com.

You can email comments, suggestions, and questions to infrontofthetelly@gmail.com.

ThisGirlTV (00:00)
Hey Jacob.

Jacob (00:02)
Hey, Angel!

ThisGirlTV (00:04)
And that is the most energy we're gonna have for today.

Phew.

Jacob (00:10)
How are you? I feel like you just answered that.

ThisGirlTV (00:15)
Yeah, I'm just tired. I've been doing a lot and dealing with a lot. And so I am.

Just kind of exhausted, but I'll be fine.

How about you?

Jacob (00:34)
Well, like regular school, I did everything but my homework.

ThisGirlTV (00:39)
Hehehehehehe

Jacob (00:43)
I watched a bunch of stuff besides what we talked about watching. I watched Killers of the Flower Moon and then I checked out The Real Story and then I checked out some... I had already had a friend who had seen it and I've been hanging out with this new group and uh...

ThisGirlTV (00:51)
Yeah.

Jacob (01:10)
My friend Jeannie is native and she works with the local, she's involved in a lot of the services and community out here. And so, and she has like the one, she lives off disability I think or something anyway, but she gets movie, what's the movie pass? Each year her mom for Christmas gets her movie pass for the year. And so she sees like every.

ThisGirlTV (01:20)
Mm-hmm.

Uh huh.

Yeah.

Of course, yeah, if it's already, if you got the winning ticket.

Jacob (01:39)
She's also.

Yeah, I'm still not I just wouldn't go even yeah, even if I wasn't I think even at the height of my movie going time I still wouldn't watch enough movies to pay to pay for it like she does she sees everything She even goes on these days. She's like you should come they do mystery movie. I'm like I don't know what movie it's gonna be like What if it's some shit like I don't?

ThisGirlTV (01:55)
Mmm.

I'm gonna go to bed.

Jacob (02:11)
And yet every time she tells me it's a movie that it's really just ends up being like a lesser known movie that she probably wouldn't have seen. Like she, it's never a bad one that she tells me that she's seen. So it's like, I should take her up on it. Like she's, she saw that Owen Wilson, Bob Ross movie paint.

ThisGirlTV (02:18)
Mm-hmm.

I see. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jacob (02:32)
and I really wanted to see that. She saw that on one of her mystery days. Anyway, she's also my mall walking buddy and in the mall is a theater. So we keep trying to line it up on five dollar Tuesday, at least, where we should go walking and then go see a movie.

ThisGirlTV (02:38)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, that sounds like something that will work out. Ha ha ha.

Jacob (02:52)
Anyway, we haven't done it yet and one of the days they talked about seeing... No.

ThisGirlTV (02:57)
It hasn't worked out?

Jacob (03:00)
Killers, first off, meeting up to do the walk hasn't happened in a hot minute. And I haven't walked without her doing that. So I... I'm a bad diabetic. That's what I'm finding out. Anyway, I'm getting... I'm gonna work on it. This week's been horrible. We'll get to that in a second. Anyway...

ThisGirlTV (03:12)
Hehe

Jacob (03:20)
She had some thoughts and yeah, so I got her perspective on that and then watched another guy's YouTube review and just learned some stuff about the movie. I love Scorsese. I agree with some of the critiques, but I think it was really cool and I like what he does instead of... Stephanie had a good way of calling it the wrap up.

ThisGirlTV (03:49)
Mm-hmm.

Jacob (03:50)
You know at the end of these movies where it just says and then Johnny became a drug addict and went to college and then killed a guy. Instead of just doing all of them. She called that a wrap up which is great because I don't know what you call that and I think that's a great thing. I guess it's a great way to categorize that. Anyway, he does something different than normal. You haven't seen it yet so I don't want to spoil.

ThisGirlTV (04:00)
What movie was that?

Mm-hmm.

Agreed.

Jacob (04:20)
uh and um but it was really cool um i don't

ThisGirlTV (04:24)
His wrap up was cool and interesting. I mean, I'm gonna watch it. We're gonna talk about it eventually, so. Oh yeah, no, yeah, I appreciate that. That's what I'm saying. We're gonna get to talk about it, so.

Jacob (04:27)
Yeah, it was much better than just the black card. Yeah, I know, but I'm just saying I'm not gonna say it right now.

But yeah, I think it was pretty good. I mean, I even liked the Irishman, despite how, despite them trying to make a 70 year old Robert De Niro look 23. The problem with Disney aging thing is even, okay, one of the ways that Disney makes it work is they don't have the walk around.

It's like when I told you about watching Picard at the end of like season two, I think it is, where there's this firefight and they're not even fucking around like, no one buys this guy shooting a gun like he's fucking Arnold Schwarzenegger coming up. So we're just gonna have him hobble and shuffle from person to person giving advice. I mean, that's the thing with the De Niro stuff. They not only tried, I think they tried to do digital, but they also tried.

I mean, speaking of actor Stewart, when they tried to D.H.M. in like, uh, in one of the first class X-Men movies, where they just pounded makeup on his face. So they do that for De Niro and the Irishman, and I think they still try to do the digital, but you still have a guy who's spying his trunk and he's walking like an old man. It's like we've talked, I've talked about with Biden sometimes, like, you know, he shuffles. He doesn't walk. He shuffles.

ThisGirlTV (05:40)
Mm-hmm

Mm-hmm. Right?

Yeah.

I mean, one of the things when we were watching Picard was just like, anytime they tried to like make it seem like Picard is fighting, it's just like, he old! Stop it, he old, okay?

Jacob (06:02)
You can't de-age that.

Yeah, but that's where Disney does a good job. I mean, where Disney does a good job is they just, they usually have them standing still. Like I still think the best example, I mean, I would agree that the length of it in Captain Marvel of the deaging Samuel Jackson was probably technically the best job.

ThisGirlTV (06:22)
Yeah.

Right, yeah, cause it, like, you forgot that, oh, he's actually an old guy, you know?

Jacob (06:41)
Yeah, I mean, we didn't know who Samuel Jackson was till he was 50. So that was 30 years ago. Yeah, a very long time. So and he still moves around great too. Because he wasn't standing still in Cap Marvel. But my point that I'm trying to get to is I remember the first time I went, holy shit, was Kurt Russell in that first shot of Kegarian's 2.

ThisGirlTV (06:45)
Right. And that was 20 years ago.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jacob (07:10)
and he's just driving and smiling. So, but it was just like, God damn, that looks just like him. But anyway.

ThisGirlTV (07:19)
that like that literally looks like Kurt Russell, young Kurt Russell, but like we also have young Kurt Russell too.

Jacob (07:22)
Yeah, like you think that was the f-

Disney specifically because you do remember that he was a child Disney star. He was the computer and tennis shoes.

ThisGirlTV (07:32)
Yeah, yeah. They have way more, yeah, they have way more data points for young Kurt Russell than pretty much anything else. Young and developing Kurt Russell.

Jacob (07:45)
But yeah, I'm a big Scorsese fan, so I couldn't wait to see this movie. And I was very pleasantly surprised at how fast it got to Apple. But it's there. I watched it on Apple. So if you've got an Apple account, you can go and watch it now streaming, but we're gonna do a little bit more research and come back.

ThisGirlTV (07:55)
No, it's on HBO Max, right?

Oh, okay.

Jacob (08:09)
and talk about that, I watched that, I watched the crossbow, the spider verse, and I did a really good job of hiding myself from the takes on that movie because it has been out forever and I forgot that it was a part one. So we got to the end, I'm like, this movie's only got like five fucking minutes, how's Miles get-

ThisGirlTV (08:23)
Right.

Ah!

How's he gonna, yeah.

Jacob (08:34)
How's he gonna get out of this? It's like, oh no, he doesn't, oh. And then also too, I had heard, I mean, I'd seen some things about, there's a trance take with Gwen, there's some interesting, a lot of people have a lot of things to say about Hobie. So I spent some time, I'd seen those headlines or those.

ThisGirlTV (08:52)
Mm-hmm.

Jacob (08:58)
screenshots or whatever, thumbnails and finally went back like I kept the play. I'll keep a playlist sometimes like go back and watch this.

ThisGirlTV (09:00)
Yeah, the memes and...

That's what I need to start doing. Every time I come across a take that I can't watch yet because I haven't seen the movie or show, but it's something I wanna go back to because like literally I was on TikTok scrolling through one creator's page because I knew she had a bunch of takes on Spider-Verse. And like, you know, it's like, I'm just going through and it's like, dang, she's got so many things in.

Like I eventually found one of the takes and I have to keep looking for some more, but it's like, dang, this person creates so much content, but it's been so long since the movie was out. That's on me.

Jacob (09:45)
Well, I definitely am. We're going to do some more research and come back to this one too. I don't I don't there are some people who said like, Oh, that was my favorite movie of the year.

ThisGirlTV (09:49)
Hehehehe

Jacob (09:59)
That's hard for me to get on board with just because it is a part one. Cause there's so much unresolved. And that's what a lot of the takes were. It's like, this is either the greatest. This is the greatest propaganda towards the issue that I want it to be, or it is the worst and we won't know until we find out where like

ThisGirlTV (10:02)
Yeah.

middle section ever.

Right. It's in a..

Jacob (10:20)
The balls are in the air and until they fucking come down, we don't know where they're gonna land. And so, you know, like specifically because there's so many cops, loved ones who are cops in the movie, these two guys were talking about how like, this is either the best copaganda or the worst copaganda, but we won't know until we get the ending. But especially with the trans stuff, there's some interesting stuff that I never would have fucking picked up on. And so...

ThisGirlTV (10:24)
Right.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Right.

Oh, okay. I'll look at that take, because I haven't seen any trans takes regarding Into the Spiderverse. So that'll be interesting to do that research.

Jacob (10:59)
Yeah, I can send you the video. The video I watched was on a Jesse, Jesse Jinder, Jesse. Okay, well I'm saying it so the people can go find it too.

ThisGirlTV (11:05)
No, just send it to me. Hehehehe.

Jacob (11:10)

ThisGirlTV (11:10)
Oh, I'll put it in the notes description. Unless you got it.

Jacob (11:13)
Jesse Jinder? Jinder Jesse? I'll have to find it. Anyway.

ThisGirlTV (11:17)
I'm just, I was just saying for the editing portion of it.

Jacob (11:23)
So, and I always encourage people to, you know, try to look up those takes of people who either, yeah, see, I mean, you might not agree with them, and you don't have to.

ThisGirlTV (11:33)
Yeah, but like, yeah, interesting different takes about stuff is worth a listen for you to add, consider adding to your world point of view, worldview, or this is a take that does not require being added to my point of view. So like, you know, I, I listen in the background in, in spaces that are, that I don't belong to.

So, you know, like I have a lot of LGBTQ, you know, identifying friends. And when they are talking, speaking about things, especially things that concern gay people, I sit there and I listen. And so another listening point for me, because I do have trans friends, and I wanna do my best to help support and uphold them, even though it's new to me as well.

So I want to go into these spaces and listen when they have something to take on our pop culture and media because as much as I feel like people of color don't get the What am I trying to say?

The stories told about people of color are often told by people looking at people of color from the outside. And I feel like trans stories are, a lot of trans stories are told like that, or just not told at all. So black, you know, stories for about black people that isn't slavery based or struggle based hardly gets told.

Jacob (13:15)
I almost can't...

ThisGirlTV (13:16)
gay and trans people, you know, like living past the story, end date, you know, like those kinds of things.

Jacob (13:23)
I tell Stephanie all the time and this really ups- like it doesn't upset me but it's just like oh my god like when I heard about Woman King which I still haven't watched because I was disappointed with the real story. When I heard about Woman King all I thought was like oh this is cool this is about an African tribe with these warrior women and they're gonna tell a story and of course now-

ThisGirlTV (13:30)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Right.

Jacob (13:50)
this story did happen at a certain point in time, and so they have to tell it from that point in time. But I was hoping for pre-colonialism. Like, I want every story with any kind of indigenous person or eventually colonized people always eventually has to include the white element. Like, even, like, I get it. Like, like, prey, disappointment is two.

ThisGirlTV (13:59)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. I was that literally that was this the thought I had because it's like what was the point of the white guys in this? movie about Which is which alien was it that came? Predator right this is a story about the fucking predator and Native warriors and we got to see these white men skin and Buffalo but like I did like it as an afterthought because

Jacob (14:27)
President.

Yeah!

ThisGirlTV (14:40)
Afterwards, I didn't like it when I was watching it, but as I thought about it afterwards, especially with the history, and a lot of people don't know that white people killed buffalo so that they could take away the food source for native people, like their own version of genocide.

Jacob (14:43)
Mm.

like it when you tell the real stories of colonialism. I'm just saying can we get some stories that don't have anything to do with colonialism? This includes the what-if episode with the native superhero. We eventually still had to fight the Spaniards. It's like can we just... you know there was like hundreds of years before they came to the Turtle Island? Like we can just tell stories that like

ThisGirlTV (15:03)
Mm-hmm.

Can we?

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, but why would-

Jacob (15:27)
exists within that and that's interesting too.

ThisGirlTV (15:31)
Why would Hollywood pay for that? Because then there's no white people to center it on. Even at least if, even if all the white people are bad guys, at least they're there. There has to be white people if there's any. Yeah.

Jacob (15:40)
It's like there has to be an end for white people. And even if it's a rooting against them, it's like, I don't stop. Like, I would love a story that just takes place in Africa and teaches me about a tribe.

ThisGirlTV (15:53)
Can we do the Masa Musa story, please?

Jacob (15:58)
know what that is I'm sorry

ThisGirlTV (16:02)
Um, he was the guy that has so much gold and he went around all over the world and travel that he devalued gold because he has so much gold.

Jacob (16:07)
Oh yeah.

Oh, ha ha!

I did hear about that.

ThisGirlTV (16:17)
Yeah, I just want to see a glorious black man with all the money, wealth and power, influencing all these other cultures, because he taught them, you know, like everything that he had learned and they had the techniques and things that they had perfected. And he took that all over with trade and getting to know, you know, like learned from their, you know, great masters, wherever he went. And it was just...

Jacob (16:46)
show us how Persians invented arithmetic or algebra or whatever it was. It doesn't always, like even as a villain, I mean, this isn't, coming from someone else this might sound bad as like, why do we have to make the white guy the villain? I'm like, why do we have to make the white guy anything?

ThisGirlTV (16:50)
Right.

Anything. Like what would the story look like if whiteness wasn't involved in any capacity? And yeah, and we don't get those stories. And yes, you were rightfully disappointed that even in Woman King, slavery is a storyline.

Jacob (17:11)
Exactly.

Yeah. So.

ThisGirlTV (17:25)
Because like, that wasn't when they first started being like this. They were warriors earlier.

Jacob (17:31)
Mm-hmm. There's it's yeah, I mean I remember going to college for the one semester I was selling stuff news the other day I went to college for one semester and I want my history class and this was the first time I ever heard about anything that happened to pass Greek Greece I Learned about the Forgiven Kingdom. I learned about the opium wars. I learned about African colonization I didn't hear any of that shit in my 18, you know my previous 13 years of public

ThisGirlTV (17:59)
at your Christian school? Mm-hmm. But you did elementary in public school, right? Did you get to middle school? And you didn't hear any of this?

Jacob (18:01)
Public and private school. Yeah, I mean, most definitely.

in middle. I was in, oh my god, no I was even in REACH, which for those who don't know was like the gifted program, so the classes I was in were the top classes when I could be. And yeah, REACH, I had to go to a different school because the school I was at didn't have the program. So that was like the one day of the week I had to go. And all we talked about was fucking endangered animals.

And it's fine, okay, but like the next year when I was gonna age out of it and go into middle school, they were like, Okay, next year we're gonna talk about knights and King Arthur's table and shit like that. I'm like, motherfucker! That is way more interesting than the fucking AUC! Which is like this penguin type bird that-

ThisGirlTV (18:53)
I know what an Auk is.

Jacob (18:56)
I had to sit there and listen to a reading of the last awk being crushed to death in the egg. I would have much rather learned about knights and shit, but anyway.

ThisGirlTV (19:04)
Of course, King Arthur is way more interesting than the birds that exist on the endangered species list or have sadly gone out of existence. Did you hear that they're trying to bring the dodo bird back?

Jacob (19:21)
through cloning?

ThisGirlTV (19:22)
I think?

Jacob (19:24)
Is there? That's cool. I mean, that's cool, but I just heard recently the reason why they thought Dodo's were stupid That's because they weren't afraid So they would just walk up and go. Hey, what are you doing? I think that's sort of shitty They were super nice. So we called them stupid

ThisGirlTV (19:35)
Hehehehehehe

Yeah.

They were very trusting and we murdered them out of existence.

Jacob (19:48)
No, yeah, I've thought about that. I think about that all the time, and especially in the What If episode was a recent disappointment where it was just like, oh cool, it's like, we're just gonna learn about native culture and we're gonna get a superhero out of it. That's cool. Nope. Fucking Spaniards.

Uh, yeah, so there, there was a crossover in the takes of Flower Moon and, um, Spider-Verse,

that you might find interesting to talk about a little bit, which is just, or you can give your take, I'm sure you have one. Um, well, the transgender people for Spider-Verse were like, I don't want it to be...

ThisGirlTV (20:18)
Oh yeah?

Jacob (20:34)
commodified transness like it is sometimes where it's like in your face like the Danish girl where it's like we're gonna tell a trans story this is a trans story and we're gonna you know we have to make it like in your face so that you know what's going on so they like the fact that there is a little bit more of a

ThisGirlTV (20:48)
Right.

Jacob (20:59)
artistic telling of transness through Gwen But at the same time, it wouldn't be such a bad thing to get a definitive answer from the directors. Like, yes, this is what we're doing. It seems like for a lot of the stuff that they were discussing and they picked on, the directors did say, yes, we are trying to do some subversive stuff on race and queerness. So they're not

ThisGirlTV (21:02)
Mm-hmm.

Jacob (21:30)
And that sort of strikes the same chord with me, to get to the point, that the Navajo guy had with Flower Moon, where he talked about how

This was a movie for white people.

ThisGirlTV (21:51)
Mm-hmm.

Jacob (21:53)
Some of the critique, and we'll talk about it quicker, I'm just trying to get to a context. Some of the critique was there wasn't enough focus on the Osage people. It was too much focused on Ernest and the people who were doing these things to the Osage people. I do agree with some of that criticism. It could have been a little less white focused. But.

ThisGirlTV (22:07)
Mm-hmm.

Hehehe

Jacob (22:18)
to get an Osage focused version of the story, you need to be told by an Osage person. And the problem is, if you look at a lot of what the, what native and indigenous creators are making right now, they're not going back and doing period pieces, they're doing modern takes.

ThisGirlTV (22:38)
Mm.

Jacob (22:40)
how does culture retain its identity in the place of white modernity and all that, which I obviously interesting reservation dogs definitely touches a lot on that and will sometimes do the period stuff. So that's it, but it's like, and this is where the.

the cross, the cross wires happens for me. It's asking the question of like, when you are a marginalized, a creator with a marginalized identity, when do you get to just tell the story that's in you and when do you have to represent your demo? And not everybody wants to do a story about indigenous people or native person, even if they are native, they just wanna do a story.

ThisGirlTV (23:22)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Jacob (23:32)
And so when does, but there is a responsibility or at least something to be said about, not all of us get this platform, you've got this platform, you should do something with it. So like, what's your take on that? I'm sure you've thought about it.

ThisGirlTV (23:47)
I think that people should tell the stories that's in them, right? And sometimes the stories that's in them is based on ignorance, and that kind of makes me think of, what's her name? Was it Adichie, the writer? Hold on a second.

Yeah, Chimimanda Igoza Adichie. She wrote...

Americana, Half of a Yellow Sun, The Thing Around Your Neck. Like these, I've read Americana and The Thing Around Your Neck, but Half of a Yellow Sun is one of her more popular books. She wrote a book called We Should All Be Feminist, but like currently she has kind of joined the J.K. Rowling School of Women.

are women and trans women or not women? However, I am still going to use her as an example while talking about this topic itself, right? Which is, she said that when she first, literature to her was mainly white, mainly European or American, discussing things that she had never seen and would never see as long as she was in Africa. I mean, the simplest being snow.

Jacob (24:54)
TERF

ThisGirlTV (25:22)
And when she first started writing, she tried to imitate them. And because that was all she knew when it came to writing, you know, so there is that context of the stories that you want to tell. Right. And. Writers in general, like when we there's no way we can't start out without telling stories from a white perspective, because everything we know about storytellers comes from that perspective.

even some of the things that we've read about Black people still come about Native people, things like that, right? I mean, and of course we've read Black authors, poets, things like that, but.

it's harder to find them when you are searching on your own. And so, yes, so while I think that there could be a responsibility to do something within your ethnicity, to kind of help push the storytelling element, to give more of a context to your people, I think people should tell the stories that's in their head, in their hearts.

first and then it'll come out. Like it'll come out through all of it as far as I'm concerned. Because we think about stories, like, you know, like I'll say, somebody can say stories are universal. And I think we could all agree that is a true statement.

Jacob (27:00)
Yes.

ThisGirlTV (27:01)
However, stories are also very individual as well. But you can get universal thoughts, processes, elements, all of that stuff from individualistic stories, which is why I don't think that someone should deliberately, have to deliberately go out and tell a story based on their ethnicity or sexual orientation or lack thereof.

whatever the different thing about them is, I think they should tell the stories that resonate with them because those stories will actually get to the heart and the universality of their individual story. So to me, I don't, you know, if I wrote something, I would 100% wanna write something that includes mostly black people, but I can't write a story, me personally, I can't write a story that only includes black people.

because that's not how my life has ever been set up.

So I think I answered your question. Okay.

Jacob (28:10)
Yeah, yeah, no. Well, I don't know if it attaches the responsibility part, but you're talking about writers, it's write what you know until you talk about what you know. What you know isn't a black exclusive experience. There's always some form or person taking up. There's whiteness in all aspects.

ThisGirlTV (28:20)
Right.

Yeah.

Jacob (28:37)
So yeah, and I definitely understand the like almost eternalized assimilation, like the context, the white supremacy context that you're existing in. And so yeah, your first instinct is to fall into that or conform to that. Which is, yeah, which is why, you know, there's a, I also watched Foundation and we'll go.

ThisGirlTV (28:47)
Yeah.

Right.

Jacob (29:04)
to but at some point. There was a part, so there's a part where people are talking about what to put into their encyclopedia Galactica and there's a part where one of the main characters said, okay well how are you going to do math? How are you going to count?

ThisGirlTV (29:06)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jacob (29:25)
How are you gonna do math? Are you gonna stick with the 10 base? And they're like, well, yeah, because that's how we count, we count tens. She was like, yeah, but this other culture, they count dozens, because that's easier to divide by such and such and such and such. So they're starting math from a basis of 10, as the default. So you don't even know. So there's just a context, there's always a context. And that's why I don't...

ThisGirlTV (29:27)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Right.

Right.

Jacob (29:52)
promote. I mean, I think there is a selfish reason to promote diversity as well, which is like, give me new stories with different perspectives just because I've already heard a lot of them.

ThisGirlTV (30:03)
Right?

Jacob (30:06)
Like, of course I also want whatever material benefit comes from a successful story to be spread around to everyone. But I also just, you know, I watch movies that aren't, I'm not the target audience for it just because it's something different and interesting. You know, I like queer, queer entertainment as well because there is a different dynamic there.

ThisGirlTV (30:14)
Be right.

Yeah.

Right.

Right.

Jacob (30:34)
um and there's a lot of things you can't assume which is also interesting like waiting to be you know not explained but like through exposition where are the boundaries what are the expectations what are the standards and all that stuff it gives me a whole different

ThisGirlTV (30:46)
Right.

Jacob (30:51)
uh story you're and that's true every stories are universal i think that's a universal human experiences we love to tell stories we all have to listen to stories there's always a group that wants to be the audience and the one who wants to be the teller and but there's been so many different civilizations societies

ThisGirlTV (30:52)
Right.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Jacob (31:14)
towns, villages, groups of people who have found different ways. Again, IDIC, infinite diversity and infinite combinations. And I am someone who enjoys a more aesthetic telling, to be an aesthetic teller, and I'm definitely someone who likes to be part of the audience. And I want to...

ThisGirlTV (31:16)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Jacob (31:38)
I want to see all the different combinations. So these people who complain, I saw the Marvels too. And I'm like, look, we both know that the Marvels didn't do well because there were women in the cast. That's a dumb take, but to even think that's a take, it's like, it's too woke. The only wokeness that was said, the only wokeness was there's just not white men on screen

ThisGirlTV (31:41)
Right.

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Jacob (32:06)
constantly.

ThisGirlTV (32:06)
Mm-hmm.

Jacob (32:07)
Like, there was no one saying like, hey man, diversities are strength over and over again, or you better stay woke or you won't be asleep. Like, there was none of that cartoonish version that they understand wokeness to be, except people were just existing not as white men. White heterosexual men. And I was like, really? Is that the fucking bar? Like, that's so fucking stupid. And again,

ThisGirlTV (32:13)
Right, right, right.

Yeah.

Like, was it an okay movie?

Jacob (32:31)
Did you haven't seen it yet? It was... No. Weak-ass villain again. It's just stupid. There was a musical for no fucking reason. She wore a Captain marvel dress, which I'm pretty sure we're gonna see in the cosplay alleys. It was okay. If you like those characters, you gotta spend time with those characters. And we both like...

ThisGirlTV (32:32)
No. Is it on Disney? Okay.

Kamala.

Jacob (33:00)
Yeah, Khan. Kamala Khan. And so that was cool. I'm still not sure if Brie Larson is doing a good job or a bad job. She's so cardboard as that character that I can't tell if she's doing something purposefully, like if she's being stoic or whatever on purpose, or if she's just bad at this. Because she could be doing a thing of

ThisGirlTV (33:04)
Yeah.

Right?

Jacob (33:29)
this is what leadership looks like outside of a patriarchy that I don't, like I'm willing to say she's doing something good that I just can't see. Because I would like her to be doing a good job. Ha ha.

ThisGirlTV (33:36)
Hmm

I see.

Well, I mean, but think about the other. So I haven't seen it, so I don't know. I have no idea what her interaction is. The only thing that I have seen is the trailer where we see a lot of her switching back and forth with Kamala and.

Jacob (33:47)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think hers is Kamala.

ThisGirlTV (34:06)
And that was funny, but I think it was funny because of her, because of Kamala. And so like, I like don't mind what is happening with Brie Larson, because overall, the scene is very entertaining. And it doesn't include like her normal stoic-ness, you know, that we do see. But I also think that a part of how she's acting is about being an alien, even though she's human. So like everything she remembers.

Jacob (34:19)
Yeah.

ThisGirlTV (34:35)
is about being an alien.

Jacob (34:37)
Well, Steph watched that chemistry show she did on Apple, and her opinion is that she is just dark fortune. And the first movie she was, I get that, I think it's Kamala. This is why I said Khan. Because I know that's her last name.

ThisGirlTV (34:44)
Okay.

Kamala, yeah. We can say Kamala or Kamala.

Jacob (34:59)
I get that her being the straight man to Khan's fangirling is what makes that work. I mean, that's just a classic. You're supposed to do that. And it is also interesting seeing, I can never remember if Monica Rambeau is the mother. I'm going to say Rambeau. I'm going to say Photon because that's her fucking superhero name.

ThisGirlTV (35:03)
Khan

Yeah.

Jacob (35:24)
It is also interesting seeing Photon watch it was also interesting watching Photon look at Carol as an absent mother because she never came back. Like she left when she was a little girl and never came back. So they have to deal with that. There is some interesting tension in that level and there it's not unwatchable.

ThisGirlTV (35:37)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Jacob (35:46)
It's just parts of it are good, not the whole thing is good. The reason why I flopped is just because like, they're getting continuity heavy. It's people are saturated and they don't want to keep up with homework. Disney plus was a bad idea for the norm for the muggles. I love them.

ThisGirlTV (35:49)
Hmm

Yeah.

Jacob (36:04)
But, and I was upset when shield started out keeping up with the MCU and then they dropped that shit after Winter Soldier.

ThisGirlTV (36:04)
Oh, I mean.

Yeah.

Jacob (36:14)
And I was disappointed by that. Evidently, that might have been the better call, because you did not need to watch any of the shield to keep up with the MCU. But if you don't watch Loki, at least, you're not going to know what the fuck's going on. So that's why it flopped. And again, weak villain. I don't think it was the greatest movies. But again, I don't remember why I even brought that up, other than, yeah, the Ode to Diversity thing.

ThisGirlTV (36:27)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm. You're right.

Yeah.

Jacob (36:42)
I want more infinite combinations, infinite diversity, infinite combinations. I D I C Vulcans, that's what I want. That's my standard. And I again, I think he doesn't even have to be this altruistic. I want everyone. I love everyone. You can look at it as a vulgar selfish standard is like give me more stories. I'm hungry. Give me more stories. And so

ThisGirlTV (36:46)
Yeah.

I'm sorry.

Right.

Yeah. And I think that more people have to be like that, right, in order to start getting that. And I want so like, Vince Staples, I didn't know who Vince Staples was until I watched the first, I watched Into the Spider-Verse. And Vince Staples is on the soundtrack.

Jacob (37:13)
Yes.

and so this is a musician.

ThisGirlTV (37:33)
He's a, yeah, he's a musician. He does, he, oh wait. He, I'm not, I'm thinking, sorry. The song that I'm thinking about is actually from Black Panther.

Jacob (37:44)
Ha ha!

Okay

ThisGirlTV (37:50)
And that was when I found out who Vince Staples was, because I do not keep up with current music.

Jacob (37:59)
I was telling somebody the other day that thank God for, it might've been a was on this show that like thank God for TV soundtrack websites because that's how I find new songs.

ThisGirlTV (38:12)
Thank God for what?

Jacob (38:14)
websites that keep up with TV soundtracks because that's how I find new songs. I make Stephanie a playlist every month and I found a really cool cover of Toxic from the current season of Fargo. I got it on the playlist. There were some songs from She Hulk that I was like, what's that song? So just Google it, find it, thank God for those websites. Because that's how I find current music. And now YouTube gives me suggestions.

ThisGirlTV (38:58)
Oh, I don't think it was Vince Staples' day. Okay.

I'm gonna start over.

And what were you talking about right before that?

Jacob (39:12)
I was just saying, I was just thinking how I don't remember the context of how you brought that up. I D I C, infinite diversity, infinite combinations. You said more people should be like that.

ThisGirlTV (39:16)
Um, you were talking?

Oh, okay. Yeah, okay.

So when it comes to your infinite diversity, infinite combinations, right? I think about how we keep getting the same directors over and over again. Like they're the only ones that get to do it. So for example, Vince Staples, who I never heard of until the Black Panther album, because I just don't keep up with popular music like that. He had a couple of songs on there and he has a show on Netflix that's coming on Netflix.

And so I was like, oh shit, you know, like a new, you know, somebody who's writing, directing, producing, like that kind of thing is a black artist. Great, right? And then I read further and it's like Kenya Barris, who does all these other, he's a black writer producer. He did Blackish and Grownish.

Jacob (40:21)
Okay, yeah, yeah. I know he's a big deal right now.

ThisGirlTV (40:25)
He's a big deal right now. He had another show on Netflix and now he has this one. And so, but like we see him a lot. Like when I was like, oh shit, another show with another black producer and everything. And then I looked through and it's like, oh, there aren't very many dark skinned black people. Like, why would you do a show about a black artist without including other dark skinned black people? Why is everybody?

look like me, like why is everybody so fair, right? And then I saw that Kenya Barris did it. And that's one of the things he's been accused of is usually doing a lot of stuff where the black representation is fair. And I mean, he's fair. He has a story to tell that, you know, comes from being either mixed race or, you know, something like that. And he's trying to get those stories out.

Jacob (40:59)
is the thing.

ThisGirlTV (41:23)
But like as a black person, I also wanna see infinite diversity in infinite combinations. So that means I wanna see dark skinned black people where they're considered the beauty, the kind to be protected, to be loved, all of those things, right? Because colorism already got light-skinned black people thinking that they are the stuff. And that's not...

You know, like we're not trying to keep that message going. We're not trying to keep that, you know, coming across, but entertainment is not just about what should or shouldn't be done. Like people who do write and who tell their stories, they want and need sometimes to get those stories out. Sometimes at the cost of, you know, like what we want. But there's a reason why he keeps getting funded.

And so we have to consider that too, when it comes to who is actually putting out the shows and stories that we're imbibing. And just because the person may be diverse, doesn't mean they're telling diverse stories still. You know? So anyway.

Jacob (42:34)
Yes, yes, yes. Well, that's funny, kids, you're talking about how certain people get the same funding. I just watched, there's a guy I follow on YouTube, FT Signifier, and he did a breakdown of Bamboozled, and he first sets it up with talking just about Spike Lee and his, and Bamboozled was a big movie, still a big movie for me, and I still think relevant as fuck.

But he sets it up by just talking about Spike Lee's career and how Spike Lee had the crowdfund almost every time he's made a movie. Because after, I didn't realize this, after, when Do the Right Thing came out, it was so controversial. I didn't realize that, that some people said if you let this movie come out in your town, you're going to start a race war. Which I mean...

ThisGirlTV (43:10)
Right.

Yeah.

Jacob (43:29)
The context of the time period is very close. I think it was, was it after the LA riots? Or before? It was close enough where tensions were high. Yeah, and so they acted like this movie was gonna make you start race riots, which I've seen the movie. I don't, like, calm down. But he not only, he was tagged with that.

ThisGirlTV (43:35)
Yeah, I think so.

It was close to, but I think it was after.

Do the Right Thing came out in 89, and the LA Riots was in 92.

Jacob (43:58)
So way before, when were the Watts riots? Maybe that's what they were.

ThisGirlTV (44:09)
65 or 92.

Jacob (44:13)
What's Rant? Oh, there was more than one. Okay.

ThisGirlTV (44:14)
There was a Watts riot, sometimes Watts Rebellion or Watts Uprising. That was 1965. Then the other one was in 92.

Jacob (44:23)
Okay, well that mic should throw you off.

Well, I do know, well, this movie came out in the, you said 89? Yeah. That was like a banger here.

ThisGirlTV (44:30)
89, yeah, but like it didn't take a you didn't have to be a genius in cities like New York and LA to know that eventually the tensions it Race tensions were high

Jacob (44:41)
Race tensions were high, yeah. There was also a context for the LA Riots to happen that was dated well before 89. And so you're still in the thick of that. I just didn't realize how. And I'm sorry I got in the Watts Riots. The LA Riots was such a fucking.

ThisGirlTV (44:52)
Right.

pressure that was.

Jacob (45:02)
landmark in my mind, I was 11. And I remember a lot of the shitty things I heard about that, you know, later on realizing how shitty they were.

ThisGirlTV (45:12)
Wait, was the Rats my riots? The LA riots?

Jacob (45:21)
Is it in the same place?

ThisGirlTV (45:22)
on the second.

Oh, so the Watts Riot was referenced in the LA riots, but the Watts Riot was 65.

Jacob (45:46)
Like I said, the LA riots were a big part of my, was like a landmark world event in my childhood. You have no idea, and I heard so many things from the grownups where I was, like I cannot tell you how many times I've heard about that fucking trucker. As far as I'm concerned, that's like, no, you don't, see this is how.

ThisGirlTV (46:02)
Hehehehe

Rodney King.

Oh, oh, mm-hmm, yeah,

Jacob (46:11)
Okay, okay, I don't know how many times I heard about that fucking trucker. You would think that's the only thing that happened.

ThisGirlTV (46:12)
yeah.

that got pulled out. Yeah, that's the only thing that happened. A bunch of black people pulled that fucker from the truck and beat his ass. Yeah, I know, that was it.

Jacob (46:24)
No, that was a bunch of conf... It's very much like everyone was behind George Floyd and felt sorry for him until someone finally found out, oh, did you know that he did drugs? So it's like, oh, LA riots, they should have convicted those cops. Oh my God, they're pulling out white truckers. They're just waiting for an excuse not to be sympathetic. Exactly. And so like...

ThisGirlTV (46:45)
Yeah, to invalidate it, yeah.

Jacob (46:49)
Yeah, so that was a big thing. Anyway, do the right thing. My point of bringing up Spike Lee is the fact that I didn't realize how much crowdfunding he has had to do. Like, Malcolm X almost didn't get made. And that's nuts, because if you had asked me to guess what the story was, like, oh, they want to do a Malcolm X movie, they said Spike Lee is a good director. Let's have him do it. Like, I wouldn't think that would be a hard combination.

ThisGirlTV (47:14)
It's like Spike Lee has made so many good movies that like he should have money flowing to him to make more movies from his perspective. And because, yeah.

Jacob (47:26)
But because he got tagged with controversial and the movies that he did make, it's still act, they act like it's a risky bet. Now I'm just talking about how he's perceived. I'm not trying to, I do really like Spike Lee. Like I said, his movies changed my worldview sometimes.

ThisGirlTV (47:36)
Yeah.

Jacob (47:50)
I do not want to... he is also old and he has had some very cringe moments, aka trying to sell me crypto, as if it's anti-black... anti-racist to do crypto, to get into crypto, so he's not perfect. But you talking about how like this light skin guy who like, you know, in my... he's getting deals left and right.

because the things that he does, like Black-ish, like even my parents, my conservative Christian parents watched Black-ish till they said one thing they didn't like. But that's up until they heard the slaves built the White House, they said they didn't like that. So they stopped watching. I...

ThisGirlTV (48:31)
They thought it was funny up until then.

But this slaves did that it's an actual

His- historical fact.

Jacob (48:48)
Yep. But I'm telling you that's the kind of people who at least looked at his projects and said sure and that's how non-controversial they came off. Meanwhile Spike Lee, you know...

ThisGirlTV (48:54)
Okay.

I mean, he's still pretty controversial, but that's okay.

Jacob (49:04)
But controversial to them, not like, yeah, I mean, blind.

ThisGirlTV (49:09)
No, I mean, no, it's good storytelling. The controversy in it is the good storytelling too. However, yeah, I could see why people would be upset with it, like the, I just watched a TikTok of a guy talking about how rap was co-opted because it was conscious in the 90s, you know, with Queen Latifah and...

you know, Brand Nubian and Most Def and, you know, like conscious lyrics talking about brotherhood, sisterhood, you and ITY, blah, right? And they were like, people are listening to this and they are coming to some conclusions that we don't like. So let's co-opt it. So now it's all gangster rap and murder and having sex with bitches and.

doing drugs and criminal activity that nobody can stop them from doing and jail time is a plus and You know like things like that

Jacob (50:13)
or we'll flood the zone and then that just becomes like...

You asked me about Tupac in the 90s, he's a gangster rapper You asked me about Tupac now and it's like, he had some fucking bars that talked about shit. Like they've got money, they got money for war, but don't have enough to feed the poor. Like his mom was a black panther. He comes from that tradition and shit. Like you're not gonna know that when they just fled the zone with like, sure, we'll just throw a bunch of them and just turn it into, we'll commodify it. Co-opt it and commodify it.

ThisGirlTV (50:25)
He was kind of revolutionary, right?

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Um, but anyway, so like, just like that happened, you know, okay, well, we can't have Spike Lee telling people to expect to be treated better. We got to have Kenya Barris setting up a, here is the, here's the, the ultimate goal for blackness. If we get here, then we're, we're where we're supposed to be right. And then that takes your eyes off of, you know what, they treating us like shit. I think we should do something, you know.

Jacob (51:13)
Even Bamboozled, he had fucking no money, which you can tell even in the filming. Like it looks like it was filmed with a camcorder. I thought that was an artistic choice because again, why would I think Spike B isn't going to get money? But it was the part that's most, that's still prescient. If you don't know what Bamboozled is real quick, this guy decides it's, this guy decides who he wants to get. This guy is black guy.

ThisGirlTV (51:19)
Mm.

The money.

Jacob (51:39)
wants to, is asked to make a hit tv show and he decides he can't quit but he wants to get fired so he makes a new minstrel show full on no stop and with all the trimmings they do not sanitize it any way shape or form. Part that I want to get to that's most still prescient is when this controversy that it does start

They have a meeting with one of the execs and she walks her or one of the PR agents and she walks him through all the answers to the questions he'll be asked. Like, who are you to decide what's black and what's not? Black people did minstrel shows. This is still black culture. You know, a minstrel show obviously is making fun of a fun of black people, even at their expense and did have there were black. Ironically, the best minstrel shows were the black ones.

ThisGirlTV (52:34)
I mean, nobody can make better fun of us than we can.

Jacob (52:35)
What were some?

How can you, you can't keep what's black in order to hide it. You're black, so how can you say you're racist? I mean, it was like, the answer she had for these questions were just fucking perfect. It was, yeah, anyway.

ThisGirlTV (52:53)
It was a masterclass on how to be racist and uh...

Jacob (53:00)
Like I said, it was like I've always said, like, I had no idea. It was the beginning of my, oh shit, we are a racist country. There's definitely parts of the analogy I didn't get, especially at the time in 2000. I was just out of Christian private school. But.

ThisGirlTV (53:10)
Hahaha

When did we meet? When you were still in school?

Jacob (53:31)
right after I saw that movie. No. Yes, I was 17, I think. I was 17 or 18.

ThisGirlTV (53:39)
Hehehehe

Jacob (53:43)
So 98 at the earliest. I think we settled on 98 when we looked at this before. But.

Yeah.

But that's not what... Do you want to still do upload or do you want to keep talking? I keep going.

ThisGirlTV (54:10)
No, oh, you kind of want to keep talking.

Jacob (54:16)
With the breaks, you're probably at 40 minutes.

ThisGirlTV (54:20)
Yeah... um...

Jacob (54:23)
But I feel like getting into a show is gonna make that another hour and a half. Yeah, so we can just keep talking about racing some again.

ThisGirlTV (54:27)
An hour and forty.

Yeah, let's just do that. Keep.

Yeah, let's keep that topic going.

Jacob (54:40)
I still, you know, talking about colorism and bring up Spike Lee, I still haven't seen glory days?

ThisGirlTV (54:49)
No, glory days with Tom Cruise.

Jacob (54:49)
which is

Um, let's see. It's a, it's the one, I think it's there in college and it is about lighter skinned, uh, black people being racist against darker.

ThisGirlTV (54:54)
Is it the military one?

Oh. Yeah.

Well, it's not just that, but that comes into play. Oh shit. School days, yeah. Well, school days is one, but okay, yeah. Talk about school days.

Jacob (55:15)
School days, sorry.

school that well I haven't seen it yet but I've always wanted to because that of course you know again when I first was told about racism I really didn't believe it because I was like that's so stupid and then when I heard about anti-semitism I'm like but they're white what the f**k so then when you tell me that like it's so embedded in the culture that there's internalized racism even within the black community between lighter and darker skinned black people I was like Jesus Christ.

ThisGirlTV (55:32)
Okay

Yeah.

Jacob (55:53)
When does it stop? I mean, that's such a dumb, lib take, but that's what I was at the time. That's who I was at the time. So yeah, when I heard about school days, at least that was a big component. That's what I heard school days was mainly about. So I haven't seen it. I wanted to.

ThisGirlTV (55:55)
Right.

Jacob (56:12)
and uh yeah I really want to see want to want to see that one but I don't get around to it. I do remember watching Jungle Fever um because at this point I'm just looking at Spike Lee's this is going to turn into a Spike Lee referendum. I was I do remember watching Jungle Fever and I thought it was interesting that while Wesley Snipes and his girlfriend who I can't remember who she was um are going through

ThisGirlTV (56:26)
Hehe

Jacob (56:40)
all the conflictions. And I thought it was interesting too how he addressed how Black women looked at interracial couples, especially between Black men and white women. While they're going through all that, I remember noticing in the background how many mixed race couples there were and just how happy everyone in the background was. But

ThisGirlTV (56:43)
Annabella Shiora.

Jacob (57:05)
The focus of this story was the conflict that they had through being in a relationship together. And I thought that was a, I always walked away thinking that was an, I mean, I could be wrong. Maybe I was imagining it, but I always thought that was interesting about how like, this could be a non-issue, which of course you can speak to more than I can. This could be a non-issue if everyone else wasn't making you focused on it. That's sort of what I got

ThisGirlTV (57:11)
Mm-hmm.

Hehehe

Jacob (57:31)
from that.

ThisGirlTV (57:31)
Hmm. It's been a long time since I was definitely not a critical movie watcher when I watched Jungle Fever.

Jacob (57:42)
Never saw Crooklyn

ThisGirlTV (57:44)
I saw Crooklyn. So I was thinking that, okay, so I was wrong. Something I was thinking about, it was She's Gotta Have It that he did that was a movie, and then he did it as a TV show on Netflix. But there is another...

Jacob (57:47)
Now we start clockers.

show.

which I saw the show and it's really good and it's about a woman just being unapologetic about having a sex positive lifestyle.

She didn't make excuses for it. She didn't feel like she had to. And if you didn't like she was having multiple partners, but wasn't committed to one of them, then fuck you, you don't have to be a part of this. Ha ha ha.

ThisGirlTV (58:28)
Right.

And don't try to make it a wait who did them. I want to know who did the movie.

Jacob (58:45)
But like we talked, we talked earlier about how not every marginalized person has to tell a story about marginalized people. I didn't realize he did Summer of Sam, which is not very race focused if I remember correctly. But that movie I did not watch. I only watched it one time. I'd have to go back.

The one movie I watched that I just did not like was Inside Man.

ThisGirlTV (59:18)
Is that with...

Jacob (59:22)
Well, you can't say is that with Denzel, because that'd be like 15 of them. Yes, but that's still and Clive Owen He's not going to pop up in a Spike Lee movie a lot. It was about a bank robbery, and it was just the most least interesting Spike Lee movie I've ever seen. And I'm not big into heist movies. He's nice stories. No. No, that was somebody else.

ThisGirlTV (59:23)
Denzel.

Hehehehehehe

What, um, did Spike Lee do Glory? Or was that somebody else? Okay. Cause I, um, I thought Kenya Barris brought Dear White People to, um.

Jacob (59:56)
Netflix.

ThisGirlTV (59:57)
Netflix, but it looks like it was Justin Simeon.

Jacob (01:00:02)
I'm pretty sure it was the same person who did the movie, isn't it? Yeah. I thought that I like the movie and I like the show. I really like a lot of what goes on there. I did think it was strange how you don't usually have, like, She's Gotta Have It came out in 1986. The show didn't come out until like 2017. Like, that makes sense to me. But like, this was like a year and a half or two years between the movie and the show. And the show...

ThisGirlTV (01:00:04)
Yeah, Justin Simeon.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Jacob (01:00:31)
retells the same story. I mean in a much longer form, but it's not like it's it doesn't tell a different story. So I thought that was very strange but it was three years maybe it took me a long time to see the movie.

ThisGirlTV (01:00:33)
Right.

So it was three years after. So it came out in 2014. And so it's supposed to be a continuation of that story, but just told through different, with different actors, or almost all different actors. But...

Jacob (01:00:49)
Still a... Okay.

25th hour was okay.

ThisGirlTV (01:01:08)
Well, we don't have to go through all of Spike Lee's movie. The only black actor that we're talking, or black director that we're talking about today is.

Jacob (01:01:11)
I'm just trying... Okay.

ThisGirlTV (01:01:20)
But, um...

Jacob (01:01:22)
I liked Black Klansman until someone pointed out to me that it is very Copaganda.

ThisGirlTV (01:01:29)
Like we're not gonna escape copaganda because we like superhero stories, so we just gotta Get used to it just whatever I mean not get past it we still talk about it, but like We some copa ganda watching mofos is what I'm saying

Jacob (01:01:33)
Yeah.

move fast. Ease on down the road.

And that's Denzel's son in that one.

ThisGirlTV (01:01:52)
in Black Klansmen. Yeah, apparently Denzel Washington and his son are going to be doing a, filming some of a movie in Macon.

Jacob (01:02:03)
Oh, cool.

ThisGirlTV (01:02:05)
or have already filmed some of a movie in Macon

Jacob (01:02:09)
I've said it over and over again, Denzel is my comfort watch. Usually it's Fallen, probably my favorite, but I'll watch Déjà Vu, I'll rewatch Ricochet as fucking stupid as that movie is. I finally showed it to Stephanie and she was just laughing the entire time. I was like, this is ridiculous. Yeah, I love Denzel Washington. So that's another, I think that's another pull for me too.

ThisGirlTV (01:02:16)
Mmmm

He's so dumb.

Hehehehehehe

Jacob (01:02:38)
to Spike Lee. No, this is a little bit of an impromptu referendum or spotlight. Just because, I mean, for my basic white ass, this was beginning of a lot of my racial introduction into a lot of my racial politics was through Spike Lee movies. And so...

ThisGirlTV (01:02:54)
Mm.

Jacob (01:03:00)
I mean, I did, like I said before, I've consumed black targeted entertainment before. But then I go back and find out how many conservatives were making that black entertainment. I mean, Denzel Washington.

ThisGirlTV (01:03:14)
Yeah. I mean...

You'll believe anything if Denzel Washington tell you, right?

Jacob (01:03:24)
Heen and Iruans is a conservative. You know, I watched a lot of Living Color and a lot of stuff that he did.

with his brothers.

ThisGirlTV (01:03:35)
And then, but you know, we also still have to talk about some of the problematic stuff in the black community as well, which the transphobia, the homophobia, like those things really have a negative impact as well. So like, you know, what stories are we trying to tell? You know, do we want the stories that highlight and protect?

you know, that kind of thinking, because that's what we thought, that's what we think, that's how we feel, or do we, you know, like are we aspirational with what we put out, right? And I think it's a little bit of both, you know, you tell the truth as you see it, but you also wanna be aspirational, because I don't want my community to be transphobic and homophobic and, you know, like pro colorism, so.

you know, just because like the closer you are to white, the better you are. Like what the fuck is that? Right? So I want us to be aspirational in our storytelling. And I, but like also I want to see a know, like I don't know enough about, I love mythology and I don't know hardly any native mythology.

Jacob (01:04:46)
Again, we can learn that through some stories that don't include Colonists. Colonists! We're gonna sound, I guess we have to wait for Disney to tell their story. So they can get a princess of color in

ThisGirlTV (01:04:50)
Right, like apps are fucking lutely.

and

Jacob (01:05:02)
there.

ThisGirlTV (01:05:02)
Well, they tried to with Pocahontas, but like I can't even stomach cause she was the little girl, you know? I mean, anyway, it's Sacagawea.

Jacob (01:05:05)
Ugh.

um well

being white in the white supremacist world is hard to break down some of the stuff because like I got a friend upset at me because you can't tell sometimes what is a racial stereotype created and what is something that actually exists because...

there are some things I can't think of a specific right second, but there's some things like, oh, the black community does or does not like this. And then you find out later, oh, no, that's bullshit, to hide and make white people look better or give them something that they can't complain about or whatever. And one of those is that I've heard my entire life that, oh, black people, they're way more homophobic than even white people are.

ThisGirlTV (01:05:50)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Jacob (01:06:11)
And I've like, I was hanging out with a friend and I was like, I want to re examine that and she got

immediately mad at me. She was a white person. She got immediately mad at me like, oh no, I've got a friend and they said that they couldn't even live in their house and I've hung out with black people and they hate, they fucking hate gay people and LGBT and she's like an ally. She's not wanting that to be true, but she was not even willing to like question that. Again, based on anecdotal shit, which is where, how this stuff permeates and gets codified in your world. And

ThisGirlTV (01:06:43)
Right.

Jacob (01:06:47)
I don't even know it's all fucking racism and I can't tell where the good parts are to get a handle to start learning what the truth of the matter is. Because there's also white families who kick their fucking kids out for being gay.

ThisGirlTV (01:06:50)
Hehe

what the actual truth is, yeah.

I think that it's, I think it's just, it's about what they pass, what families pass on, you know, like the racism of whatever is the thing that families pass on, like being racist against whatever, being anti-Semitic. Like you learn it as a kid from your family. I mean, like literally one of my first teaching experiences, this is in college and you know, I'm in college to be an educator, right?

and I do my student teaching at the school and I'm working with preschoolers. And this one little kid is walking around with me, holding my hand, telling me how much he doesn't like black people. And I was like, well, do you know any black people? He didn't even say me. Now.

Jacob (01:07:57)
Yeah.

ThisGirlTV (01:07:59)
I was in Boston, so this glow could have come off as Hispanic or something. I don't know. But I'm clearly black as far as I'm concerned. And I realized this kid didn't understand what he was saying. He was just repeating what he had heard his parents say because he loved me. Wanted to monopolize my time.

Jacob (01:08:04)
Mm-hmm.

ThisGirlTV (01:08:25)
and he can't hate black people.

Jacob (01:08:26)
You're one of...

ThisGirlTV (01:08:30)
and then want me to be his main person, right? I'm hoping anyway.

Jacob (01:08:39)
It actually would be worse if he knew he met you too. I was like, oh, I'm just, and I feel so emboldened about it, I'm going to say it to you. Yes.

ThisGirlTV (01:08:48)
Right? I feel so strongly as a four or five year old about my stance on black people that I can confidently hold your hand and tell you that I hate you.

Jacob (01:09:01)
Yeah, well, you know.

Bigotry, obviously, definitely taught, and it's not our natural state. You'll hear people talk about racism's been around forever. Well, first off, racism specifically has not been around forever. Ethnic bigotry has been around. And I would still say that's not our default state. I would still say that there are material conditions of someone exploiting a social weakness that creates that hatred, not just, you know, just...

ThisGirlTV (01:09:18)
Yes.

Right. Yeah, exactly.

a natural part of how you develop in life, right?

Jacob (01:09:36)
are. Yeah. Capitalism is what created and sustains racism, specifically. Well, I mean, like reading about Reconstruction, you do, you know, to the Black community and the Black community, Black homophobia.

ThisGirlTV (01:09:43)
and sustains.

Mm-hmm, specifically.

Mm-hmm.

Jacob (01:10:05)
The reason why I was willing to look at it is because they always say like, oh, because black people are more religious. And then you make all religion equals homophobia, which is also not necessarily true. I'm not saying it's not a predominant truth, but I'm just saying it's not necessarily true. I know plenty of...

ThisGirlTV (01:10:19)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Jacob (01:10:32)
know and know of plenty of queer Christians. So I mean like that doesn't mean anything. But then you read about Reconstruction, I'm not trying and I'm not doubling back on my statement, I'm just saying that you have to examine these things within the context. You know I have a thought and I'm going to place it here. It's just not going to look good.

ThisGirlTV (01:10:37)
Mm.

Heheheheheheh

Jacob (01:10:57)
I feel like I'm not intending to double back on what I'm saying, but it's going to look like I'm double back.

ThisGirlTV (01:11:02)
Okay.

Jacob (01:11:07)
So, yeah, it's not our natural state of being, and I do think when you are trying to dismantle what you can. And it's an ongoing project, because you're constantly...

taking in new information and processing it. So even if you were to finally dismantle all the racist and white supremacy from the past, you've got to now deal with the present and what's still coming in through a racist filter. And you know...

ThisGirlTV (01:11:32)
Mmm

Right.

Jacob (01:11:46)
I just want to ask because I can't help but think when I have my own thoughts, I can't help but think of the arguments against it. Because I'm, I tried that. That's how I process stuff. I try to be critical of what I'm thinking. And it's just like the only thing I get is racism wouldn't be a problem with people would keep talking about it, which is a theory that I held at one point. I just didn't think no one would stop talking about it. So I just sort of blackpilled with that. But it's like I want to ask people, you know, people on my family who

ThisGirlTV (01:11:54)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jacob (01:12:15)
claim that all this anti-racism thought is useless or just continuing the problem. It's like, okay, well, when do you think racism stopped? Because they'll say without you asking that question, oh, we dealt with that in 68. Like, okay, it stopped.

ThisGirlTV (01:12:32)
Right. They have their rights now, so what are they complaining about?

Jacob (01:12:40)
But yeah, and...

ThisGirlTV (01:12:40)
Nobody's stopping them from doing anything. Oh, yeah. OK. Right. All these laws to you've seen this where they are now, like certain states have done like nine or 10. Introduce bills that are anti-trans, anti.

Jacob (01:12:45)
Yeah, the laws are there. Our laws are not, CRT is not real. But.

ThisGirlTV (01:13:09)
gay, homophobic and transphobic laws that they are trying to introduce and get passed in this year in different states. And it's like, why would they, if racism is gone and this bigotry is gone, because everybody has their rights, why are they trying to work so hard to take rights away?

Like what makes you think, what in our society makes that seem like the right thing to do as opposed to embracing and welcoming the diversity that trans people and gay people bring to the table? Like why do you think that is not something we can do? And like to get out of it, to not see that, you just don't take your kids to the happy or drag queen storytelling hour.

What is it?

Jacob (01:14:09)
Drag Queen story. You said it, it just awkwardly. Drag Queen story time.

ThisGirlTV (01:14:11)
Hehehe

It was so awkward. But you don't take your kids to that if that's something that you don't like, right? I know, and they don't get that right. Things get to exist that you don't like, damn it. Anyway.

Jacob (01:14:23)
They don't like that it exists at all. Yeah.

Yeah, I thought what happened to the freedom of speech crowd?

ThisGirlTV (01:14:35)
Right? Oh, I thought that was you. No, freedom. Freedom of speech only belongs to the people who deserve it. And it is never a person of color. Or a marginalized individual.

Jacob (01:14:40)
free universe speeds if they like.

Yeah, I mean, that's one of the things that Killer Moon ties what happened to the OSH there with Tulsa. And at first I was like, what? Why? And then after I watched the movie, I was like, oh, because what you hear is people of color, and I'm including.

ThisGirlTV (01:15:06)
Mmm.

Jacob (01:15:18)

Native people and black people and that specifically because of these stories. They're lazy. They don't want to do any work. If they just pulled themselves out of their boot, by their bootstraps, if they just did this, and this, if they just invested wisely, if they just didn't spend their money on crap, if they didn't just get drunk, if they didn't just do drugs, they didn't just go to jail. They didn't, if they didn't, if they didn't, if they didn't, then everything would be fine. And you have two stories around the same time.

ThisGirlTV (01:15:22)
Mm-hmm.

Jacob (01:15:47)
of Black Wall Street and at the time of the Osage murders, these were the richest people on Earth.

Quick story, the Osage were put on a reservation and then they found out they had oil underneath the reservation. So you've got two groups who were wealthy, who were at the top of the capitalist food chain, who didn't steal. I mean, you could say with the Osage, there was a little bit of luck, but there was also a lot of bad luck too.

ThisGirlTV (01:16:24)
You're right.

Jacob (01:16:25)
And who gives a shit? No one ever questions whether J.P. Morgan or Carnegie, how they got their money. They have it, so they deserve it. That's supposed to be the meritocracy within capitalism. So who gives a shit? So they're doing everything the right way. They're at the top of the game of capitalism, so they're evidently doing something right, and still that's not good enough. And still, like with the Osage, they would create rumors.

ThisGirlTV (01:16:41)
Right.

Right.

Jacob (01:16:53)
about how they would spend their money just frivolously. Oh, oh look at it, you know, oh look at Native Americans, they're, they're uh, they're incompetent, they can't handle money, oh no, they can't get any money, and then when they get money, oh well they spend it badly. Fuck you! Yeah, and that's how, and that's how white is, becomes the exclusionary force that it is, it creates racism.

ThisGirlTV (01:16:56)
Mm-hmm.

Right. They don't deserve it.

Hmm.

Jacob (01:17:24)
And I even noticed too, like, even though... Like...

Western white.

uh, cultural forces are so strong that no matter what country you come from, if you have money, you express those spending habits in a white way.

ThisGirlTV (01:17:55)
Hmm, say more.

Jacob (01:17:58)
Well, like, if you want to be taken seriously within a group, within a capitalist class, you put on a nice suit. You wear a nice watch. That's from Western trends, Western culture. In Japan, in Japan, when you, when in South Korea, you go to a Samsung conference, they're all wearing.

ThisGirlTV (01:18:12)
which is predominantly white.

Jacob (01:18:21)
suits tailored suits, knife watches, ties. There's no traditional or culturally relevant dress attire in a boardroom in South Korea anymore. There is one in London or Milan.

ThisGirlTV (01:18:29)
a tire. Yeah.

So now that you say that, I was saying to my partner that there's nothing like a man in a nice suit. Like every, almost every guy you put on a nice tailored, you know, well tailored suit, a suit made to fit that person's body, that dude will look fucking awesome, right? And he was like, yeah, that's white supremacy.

That's the social construct. That's part of the messaging because, you know, it's whiteness that does that suit, right? Because, and it's one of the things that, if you remember the guy who unionized Starbucks was just a regular old black dude. You would see him on, huh? I mean, Amazon, that's what I meant. Amazon, thank you, sorry.

Jacob (01:19:33)
You mean Amazon? You mean, yeah, Smalls. Jesse Smalls?

ThisGirlTV (01:19:38)
Yeah, I think so.

Jacob (01:19:42)
Smalls is his last name, I just don't remember his first name.

ThisGirlTV (01:19:45)
Did you ever say that you're killing me Smalls to keep remembering it? Hehehehe.

Jacob (01:19:49)
No

ThisGirlTV (01:19:56)
Yeah, Chris Smalls. So he's got on the hoodie, he's got on, he's actually fashionable for street wear. But he's wearing street wear. And that's on a CNN interview, actually in the negotiations room, blah, blah. My coworker, when he negotiates, he wears...

Jacob (01:19:56)
So these crystals.

but he's wearing street wear. But he's wearing street wear on a CNN interview.

ThisGirlTV (01:20:21)
a nice jacket. He looks like a fucking college professor. He's got his little bow tie on. Like he just looks so dapper and dashing. And that's what the expectation is. And so if that's the expectation, if that's not what you do, I don't have to take you seriously.

because you have decided to not put on white supremacy in order to impress me, say that you belong in the room, blah, right? Those trappings say we belong in the room. And to go against that, either says, I'm stronger than you, which this is what this dude did, or it says to them, they don't have to listen to you. But like he not in the white supremacist trappings made them listen to him.

even though they didn't want to.

Jacob (01:21:13)
definitely agree it's within white supremacy but I also think it's also just a class thing because that's what that says I mean these are standards set by the capitalist class if you want to be in the room and taken seriously then you need to dress like you're a part of our class that we don't even talk to you never forget this phrase to anyone who listening rich people always lead with their class politics every decision they make starts with their class politics

ThisGirlTV (01:21:18)
Oh, it's definitely, yes.

and ends with it as well.

Jacob (01:21:41)
and their goal is to get you to not. So I'll admit through my own programming of all of the capitalism and white supremacy, when I saw Chris Smalls come onto interviews, I was like, what are you doing? I questioned it and I looked, I judged it. I tried not to because I'm like, this is his, this is what he's.

ThisGirlTV (01:21:55)
Right. Mm-hmm.

Jacob (01:22:02)
bringing this is what he has this is what he's bringing to the table but I also said you're not gonna be taken seriously and I and I'm rooting for him I want him to be taken seriously but then your partner is right that it's these this is just this is a signal that I'm on the team so I should be again I should be taken seriously and if we do believe that these things are arbitrary at best

ThisGirlTV (01:22:08)
Mmm.

Yeah.

Jacob (01:22:31)
Like, I mean, even thinking about the standards, at one point, wearing leggings to your knees was how you got taken seriously. Like, the tie, the long tie was invented to be a napkin. So I mean, like, but now that's the standard. Walk in without it and you're making a statement of some sort because this has become the default. Where the, this didn't come out of, you know, a fucking.

ThisGirlTV (01:22:39)
Right. Yes.

Hehehehehehe

Right, of some sort.

Jacob (01:23:02)
God didn't write, draw a suit on a tablet. Like this evolved and became a thing.

ThisGirlTV (01:23:08)
Right, and you'll notice when I talked about the suit, what did I say? Well tailored to fit their body. Cause you can't just throw any old suit on. Like if your suit's too big, if it, you know, like, or too small, you're not gonna look good in it. And that's a class thing as well, because who can get tailored suits?

Jacob (01:23:17)
Not off the rack.

ThisGirlTV (01:23:29)
Who can afford that shit?

Jacob (01:23:32)
To be fair, that standard that you hold probably originated in time where there were tailors everywhere and it was way cheaper to have that done, but in an era where tailors are hardly ever employed and so there aren't as many around and they're the which raises the price does create a different class situation. In the 30s everyone had one.

ThisGirlTV (01:23:48)
Mmm.

Standard, yeah, because I was thinking about, we were talking about, right, exactly. That's the only way you could get close.

Jacob (01:24:01)
Yeah!

ThisGirlTV (01:24:04)
So anyway, what started our conversation about suits is we were talking about the criminal book in Australia in the early, the late 1800s, early 1900s. Like they basically put them in suits and ties and then had them stand like GQ models. So that's what you look through to see if the person that committed the crime

is in that book, right? It's, and I was like, they like, if you have a villain fantasy or crush or whatever, like go look through those Australian books. There was some very nice looking men committing all kinds of heinous acts. But yeah.

Jacob (01:24:40)
Ha ha ha.

But, you know, I do think this episode definitely shows the power of telling these stories from diverse points of view because I started thinking about a lot of this because I watched a movie about white parasites on a Native community and another movie about that has that is full of a lot of different people that is outside of my own identity.

ThisGirlTV (01:25:21)
Mm.

Jacob (01:25:22)

um with Spider-Verse and then that gets us to talking about Spike Lee who like I said was the beginning of my probably really I mean really and truly honestly the beginning of my anti-racist thought um because I just

ThisGirlTV (01:25:25)
Mmm

Yeah. I mean, you also had a lot of personal anti-racism confrontation. For example, because we were hanging out, your dad thought we were dating. And got very nervous every time we hung out together.

Jacob (01:25:51)
Well.

Yeah, I was told some really weird things about interracial couples to justify. It was all to justify. Yeah. Before you were a part of the thing, I heard things. And I also went to elementary school where I was the only white kid and had personal experiences through that. But this was the beginning of me thinking about it in a more standardized...

ThisGirlTV (01:26:03)
I don't want or need to know.

Oh yeah.

right.

Jacob (01:26:25)
uh way beyond just me trying to piece together what I what I what I see because from a story that you like that I am ashamed of um just presented with the evidence in front of me I don't always come to the best conclusions the black people apartment complex

ThisGirlTV (01:26:43)
Oh yeah, no. I knew what you were talking about. I was just gonna let you end it there and then.

Jacob (01:26:51)
So, but yeah, and that is the power. That's the power of diversity in storytelling. And.

ThisGirlTV (01:27:00)
Yeah.

Jacob (01:27:03)
I want more of it, not less. You're just hurting yourself. What, did we watch the same fucking plays over and over again? Like...

ThisGirlTV (01:27:05)
Right.

Jacob (01:27:14)
Stories are mainly already seven of them. Hahaha!

ThisGirlTV (01:27:16)
Right? We already know that there are only seven stories and how we the elements we plug into the I don't know how many stories there really are but you know what I'm saying.

Jacob (01:27:26)
Yeah, I never I gotta I gotta concrete look that up so that when I keep reciting it, I don't just do it This is why I have imposter syndrome because I barely know what I know At any Any point you can call me out on it and i'm fucked

ThisGirlTV (01:27:30)
Hehehehehehe Yeah

Right? Same. That's how I feel anyway.

Well, I think that one of the things that diversity in storytelling does is also give you more things to talk about with your friends and gives them more context for things that happen in your life, you know, where they can see that they don't need to be afraid because we, you know, like, as a culture.

You know, like as an ethnicity, black people, as an ethnicity native, as an ethnicity, blah, blah. We have all the same fucked up issues. It's just, we know more about white people's fucked up issues.

because that's what we see all the time. And there's a reason that, I think that in our, especially in the United States, but it could be anywhere, there's a reason why people don't wanna hear our stories outside of the context of slavery or whatever, right? Cause slavery, and yeah, outside of oppression.

Jacob (01:28:49)
Oppression

ThisGirlTV (01:28:52)
Slavery gets to be the bad white guy. We're nowhere near that now. We're nowhere near beating, raping, burning marks into taking the children away from, we're no, that's not where we are, except you can go into any native community and they will never like the people who do family and children services stuff.

because a lot of it is taking Native kids away from Native families. Like that still exists. They're trying to do laws now where the kids that got separated from their families after crossing the border can be adopted by somebody that's not their ethnicity. Because after white people stole Native kids, put them in schools,

and force them to be American and not Native.

And then people were like, okay, that's wrong. We shouldn't do that anymore. They made rules and regulations that were supposed to protect Native kids. And that included placement requirements. And still people get away from that by denigrating the poverty that has been caused by the United States in a lot of these places where the Native community exists and live.

And then they blame the native population for what they're not getting, that when all of this should have been theirs.

So there's still shit going on that people want to separate themselves from and tell the story so that they appear good now when they're not, when they were, because they were worse then.

Jacob (01:30:55)
Well, and for them. I mean, yeah, we don't do chattel slavery, but we found other ways to make life hard. And then on top of them.

ThisGirlTV (01:31:03)
I mean, we still kind of do it through prison, but yes.

Jacob (01:31:07)
and then the native plight is never stopped. It's always just shrinking and shrinking up their land.

ThisGirlTV (01:31:10)
not one second. Like they weren't even considered Americans until the seventies. They couldn't hold native citizenry and still be American.

Jacob (01:31:25)
in flower moon.

ThisGirlTV (01:31:28)
1970s. Okay, go ahead and Flower Moon.

Jacob (01:31:32)
In Flower Moon, the first time we see Millie Cobb, who's the woman you see on the poster, she has to claim herself as incompetent because after the Osage came into all this wealth, Congress in the 20th century passed a law saying that full-blooded indigenous people

could not spend their money wise enough not to be trusted and put in the trust of a white conservator. So she has to go to a white guy and justify why she needs to take her money out. That's how systematic and racist and

ThisGirlTV (01:32:07)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jacob (01:32:23)
parasitic

ThisGirlTV (01:32:23)
They basically just set up a way for white people to steal from native people without the native people knowing or being able to do anything about it. And that's fucking sucks, yeah.

Jacob (01:32:27)
Yeah.

Yeah, well yeah, doing anything about it, no one cares. Yeah, so even they're at the top, again, most, the richest group in the world at the time, and they are at the top of the capitalism game. So this goes like, this supersedes just class on a wealth way. This is class in a systemic way.

ThisGirlTV (01:32:55)
Mm-hmm.

All right.

Jacob (01:32:59)
like structural, when Marx talks about superstructures, this is talking about the people at the top of that. So this is beyond you winning a capitalism. This is beyond that. And so yeah, they can even, why did I fucking bring that up? I brought it up for a reason.

ThisGirlTV (01:33:09)
Right.

You were talking about the, we were talking about the stories that get told where white people want to look better now than what they did in the past. So they'll allow themselves to be villainized because that's not what they're like now, even though that's exactly what they're like now. So we were talking about that when you started this conversation.

Jacob (01:33:30)
Yeah.

Well, ironically, the Navajo guy I watched, he said that he saw it in theaters and when it was over, he heard two things that pissed him off. This goes to what you just said. Uh, A, um, one girl said, Oh my God, could you imagine if that was a true story?

And then the other guy, there was a guy who said more anti white propaganda.

I think those were two perfect comments to catch. Because you either ignore it, like that can't be real. Which I'll admit, like I am one of the basic white people who saw, who did not hear about Tulsa until I watched Watchmen. Which is now erased, not on HBO servers anymore. I did, yeah, we could double check, but I'm pretty sure Watchmen got taken off.

ThisGirlTV (01:34:10)
Yeah.

Right.

What?

Jacob (01:34:37)
Disco Dave I was like there's an airplane and I was like no fucking way

ThisGirlTV (01:34:47)
that they bombed they dropped bombs on this. Yeah.

Jacob (01:34:51)
I honestly probably wouldn't even looked it up if they hadn't included the airplane. Cause I was like, there's no, that's, where do you even get an airplane? And then I was like, so I right then stopped the show and looked it up like, what the fuck? And had just happened, this was a point in time where I was at my TYT level of lifting this.

ThisGirlTV (01:35:07)
Right?

Mm-hmm.

Jacob (01:35:18)
and there was a black girl on the show who had mentioned black wall street but i didn't know what she was talking about so i just sort of put a tab open for like look out for black wall street and i found it so again like you hear about it and you're like that didn't you just ignore like that's a response ignore it like that's not that's too crazy to be real it's like no that's how bad white supremacy is

ThisGirlTV (01:35:24)
Hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Jacob (01:35:47)
That's why we use words like white supremacy, even though you think it's us going too far. Or that's just anti white. Like you're just bringing, again, people wouldn't be racist if you didn't keep bringing it up. It's like, well, fucking atone. Do something, acknowledge it. I mean, that's what I tell people. I don't believe in white guilt because I didn't do any of those things. But I should be guilty if I pretend like they didn't happen.

ThisGirlTV (01:35:53)
Right.

Jacob (01:36:17)
My bare, the bare minimum responsibility I can take is to acknowledge that it happened.

ThisGirlTV (01:36:23)
Yeah.

Jacob (01:36:28)
But that's how white fragility protects itself. Not to use.

ThisGirlTV (01:36:31)
Yeah, white fragility and white supremacy. So, but yeah, I mean like, the concept of diversity in storytelling is also, it's not just about the people being diverse, like you said, it's also about the stories being diverse and not the same note, you know? Like I want to hear.

all the fairy tales and myths that we have never heard from different cultures. I don't know any Persian fairy tales and myths. And one of the things I love about myths and fairy tales is how similar and how separate they are. Like there's always been a story about, like in almost every culture where I have read the storyteller, the myths and fables.

There is somebody who can change into an animal of some form by taking on or shedding skin. Swan in, was it Hans Christian Anderson? I did read one native fairy tale where it was a seal. Spiders, changelings, yeah, exactly. I mean, there's so many, there's something.

Jacob (01:37:47)
change, yeah, changelings are big.

Greek mythology is full of them. Someone's getting turned into something. Ha ha ha!

ThisGirlTV (01:37:57)
Like fucking Zeus. But.

Jacob (01:38:02)
And then Zeus will fuck it. It's like horny. Pretty horny. I said what I said. Well, I mean, not to upset and offend, but there are plenty different... There is a Chinese Jesus story. There is an Indian Jesus.

ThisGirlTV (01:38:06)
Like, no, that's what I named him, fucking Zeus. I'm just kidding.

Yeah.

Jacob (01:38:25)
story. There are very some, there's a lot

of similarities and a lot of oral histories at least that I can say without being imprecise. And yeah, no, it's interesting to hear the different versions even if you all, you know, want the same stories, just having them in a different flavor is different enough. So, um...

ThisGirlTV (01:38:28)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Hehehe

is... yeah.

Yeah, I watched, I think this was a short that was nominated for some award, and I wish I could remember the name, but basically it was a native tale of a warrior who meets a sea creature man when he is like.

pushed off a cliff in a fight. So he gets rescued by this man that can turn into a squid. I don't know if he was meant to be a god or if he was just a changeling or whatever, right? And he brings them back to life and they spend time together, becomes a love story. Then they go and they fight against the colonizers in their land, right? And that, you know.

That's how the short ends, like them fighting together. And it was like, like that was such an interesting and different love story, you know, like without the elements that people usually put in when it's a man and a woman. And because there's something about like the, will they won't they, that speaks to our society's concept of

Demure in women that they, it's almost that they require in order for them to be worthy of getting the love of the main male character, right? But in this story, it was just about the connection, the working together, the saving of lives, and finding a path back to his tribe so that he could help them, right, with this guy. And...

And so like those normal elements that you see in a love story, because this is a love story, not a war story. It was just different in like the entire feel of it. Even the looks back and forth between the guys as they realize their love for each other is different. And I think it feels more equal.

like they're on the same wavelength as opposed to like the man and woman dynamic, which feels like there is, and it could be on either side, either the man's side or the woman's side, but like one of them is more or better and deserves the love of the other person, right? Or deserves to be loved by the other person. And so, I don't know, just thinking about.

you know, diversity when it comes to how we tell the story as well as who we use to tell the story.

could be a benefit for everyone.

Jacob (01:41:54)
I have an ultimate point, but I want to touch on things that directly touch on what you just said. I remember the first time I was shown a gay couple and how it worked. Now this is a problem that I've learned since this is a problematic depiction and that's in Six Feet Under. But for me, it was the first time I saw like how two gay men struggle.

ThisGirlTV (01:42:15)
Oh.

Jacob (01:42:24)
how you know because uh in the show the guy who eventually plays Dexter is in the closet Michael C. Hall Michael C. Hall is in the closet his black cop boyfriend is not and so dealing with that how they have patience for each other um while I and it was at least a show that was ran by Alan Ball who I do believe is a gay man

ThisGirlTV (01:42:29)
Michael, was it Michael C Hall?

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jacob (01:42:54)
So even though I don't think all gay people have to have a threesome or go through a lot of the stuff that couple did um and I don't think they were always healthy I um That was for me. That was the first time I ever seen a relationship work like that The only other gay cinema I'd seen was sort of like rom-coms. So it was about getting together This is the first time I saw how it worked after that

ThisGirlTV (01:42:58)
Hehehe

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm. Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

Jacob (01:43:26)
Then I have something to say about you take the show American Gods, which has a lot of aspects to it that tries to break from white heteronormative situations and even like we say tries to incorporate other cultures and their myths into this. But at the end of the day, I don't know who ran the show, but this is written by Neil

ThisGirlTV (01:43:29)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jacob (01:43:55)
And so he's going to eventually, no matter how well-intentioned he is, he's going to hit a ceiling on his understanding of these aspects. And so we want, you know, you talking about there was a, you know, part of that show, at least in the show, I didn't read about. Part of the show was the Arab taxi driver who had a gay relationship with a gend.

ThisGirlTV (01:44:21)
Oh, what show? Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was just like, wait a minute. Did we just leave? Whatever.

Jacob (01:44:22)
That was all in... American Gods. How's that gin?

How that gin was represented was interesting how you have the guy chasing his gay love interest gin across the country with the other characters. There was a lot of diversity or an attempt at diversity and that culturally, sexually, all of that you can't. But again, Neil Gaiman, as great as he is, he's going to hit a wall.

ThisGirlTV (01:45:00)
The, however, yeah, I agree with you. And I think that as if a writer gets into a moving medium, theater, TV, movies, you know, that kind of thing, not just a written word, and work with, you know, and work with people who are diverse.

Jacob (01:45:01)
other creators.

ThisGirlTV (01:45:24)
but allow them to make the changes that would be more culturally correct for, you know, whatever their culture is, or even if it's just whatever is to them culturally correct, you know, because like, shit, I don't represent all black people. What I do is done by a black person, so black people do what I do, but I don't represent all black people.

Jacob (01:45:25)
collaborative.

ThisGirlTV (01:45:53)
So just cause I do something and I enjoy it doesn't mean that other black people will do it and or enjoy that. However, I do still get to talk about and be part of the black experience. So when you see directors, writers, all of that stuff, listening to the people who portray the characters that they've created and incorporating those things into it because like for whatever reason.

as great as Crowley and Aziraphale are in the books. Like they fucking came to life when they were played by David Tennant and.

Jacob (01:46:36)
She's talking good on us.

ThisGirlTV (01:46:37)
Yeah, I'm talking good omens. I was going to get there.

Jacob (01:46:42)
Oh, I'm sorry.

ThisGirlTV (01:46:46)
Who plays, what's his name, Michael Sheen? Those two guys really put a lot of themselves, but like not their, like, I don't know, maybe it is their actual personalities as well, but I think they put something so different into those characters that they made them better than the book has them be.

Jacob (01:46:48)
Oh, shizer. Yes.

ThisGirlTV (01:47:14)
And I think the only reason they could do that is because they had a director that allowed them to make the changes necessary for them to fully inhabit those characters. And I think when directors and writers that have diverse cast allow that to happen, I think we get better stories and more, not accurate, believable.

Jacob (01:47:36)
insight and insightful, unbelievable.

ThisGirlTV (01:47:39)
more believable characters, more insightful, I guess, a character that you can connect with, that you know, yeah, I know a guy like that guy. And it's not like some white dude writing a black dude that ends up being just a caricature or an empty shell to be a foil and foible for someone else, right? They're actually...

Jacob (01:47:47)
representative.

ThisGirlTV (01:48:07)
using their personality and what is part of them from their community to bring that character to life. And I love when I see that happening.

Jacob (01:48:18)
um, a question that for me, well, I want to clarify something.

that you said for the audience, not for you, obviously. Not correcting you. You're saying, because with a writer, you've got one person that creates the product. But with the moving medium, as you talked about, that's a collaboration. Because you have so many different pieces and moving parts. But again, with the writer, it's not 15 people writing a book. It's one dude and possibly, hopefully, an editor.

ThisGirlTV (01:48:29)
Okay.

Right.

Right.

Right. Somebody editing, somebody reading. And I mean, and I think that it's fair if you have, you know, like if you have diverse characters and you can have it, your story proofread by diverse, you know, people, people who represent the diversity that you've put in your book. Like if I wrote a book about kids.

that included kids that are maybe like a young adult novel or whatever, right? I would literally want somebody to read it to their child to see if it would be remotely entertaining to them, right? I would not just trust that I knew what I was doing. I don't have no fucking kids. I do not know what a 13-year-old do.

Jacob (01:49:43)
Yeah.

ThisGirlTV (01:49:45)
I was not a normal 13 year old personally, so. So.

Jacob (01:49:49)
Well, here's a high profile writer who could have used some more collaboration that white people fucking love, but don't really think about what he puts in his shows. And that's a god damn it. He left my brain. West Wing.

ThisGirlTV (01:50:01)
Mm-hmm.

Oh

Walk and Talk Society. Damn it.

So my mind said, my brain said, sook it. Okay, hold on a second. My brain said, can you bear it? As soon as she said that, I was like, no, that is not it. Okay, so start over so I can edit this cleanly.

Jacob (01:50:18)
Sorkin, Aaron Sorkin, Aaron Sorkin.

Hahahaha

One person who white people really do need to take another look at who could have used some more collaboration in his writer's room, which I heard at the time that he when he's in charge he is in charge, and that's Aaron Sorkin. I mean because beyond the fact that whenever someone needs to be, whenever exposition needs to be told, he does it through a woman asking a question every fucking time. And then the one regular cast member who is black is

ThisGirlTV (01:50:44)
Mm-hmm.

Jacob (01:51:01)
the president's page and no one bats a fucking eye. They are the good guys, Republicans are still the racists, we just don't hire black people or any, it's just white people. It's not like oh there's an Asian or there's an Indian lady or there's a Pakistan, no it's just white people. So just...

ThisGirlTV (01:51:03)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

But he gave that black guy a chance, a shot.

Jacob (01:51:30)
Oh, yeah, and then any older black people like the dad from Happy Good times. He will come by and say like no, it's okay. You're not being racist when the show is absolutely being racist They give them the black the black pass a Question that I have for you

ThisGirlTV (01:51:45)
Yeah.

Jacob (01:51:55)
and I think I don't have a hard rule, I think it's more of a case-by-case basis, is do you think it's okay for you to write something for an identity that you're not? I

know of some people who are well-meaning but aren't the best faith actors when it comes to talking about diversity and so they'll point out all the times where some people who do not think it's okay have gone and just like you can't write a story about Palestine you're Mexican.

ThisGirlTV (01:52:30)
Mm-hmm.

I think you can write whatever the fuck you want to write. I just think that as the writer, it's our responsibility to think about what our writing about something that we are not part of could do. We have to take the responsibility, but also the whatever flack may come of us maybe not knowing something.

or maybe not getting something fully right or you know whatever right um but like for example

One of the things I wanted to write about that I eventually decided that this wasn't my ministry. I wanted to write about the couple that ran one of the camps that we went to when I was in Africa. They were white Zimbabweans. They were definitely racist. And

I, you know, like just the concept of how white people came to Zimbabwe or Rhodesia and then took over and you know, like everything that happened in Africa, right? And then now that Mugabe, or not now, but at the time Mugabe was in control on Zimbabwe and he was basically killing as many white people as would come into his view or allowing his soldiers to do so. They were forcing people to drink.

Um...

something that goes in cars that makes you sick and can kill you, antifreeze, and burning white farmers' lands and stuff like that, right? So they escape to Botswana, or move to Botswana to run this thing, and then they're the person that is paying the wages and everything for their staff, and the staff is all Black.

Jacob (01:54:19)
You freeze?

ThisGirlTV (01:54:44)
They're the only white people there, except for visitors, you know, like the tourists. And they have the gall to still be racist.

And I wanted to write a story about that. But I don't know anything about being a white Zimbabwean. I don't know what the thought patterns are. And there was a part of me that wanted to just like, kind of interview them without them fully realizing that that's what I was doing, to understand some of those ways of thinking. But yeah, I mean, like I say, that's not my ministry. Like it wouldn't have been a ministry. I just...

That's not the story I want to tell. But you know, like, yeah, this shit happens there. This is what they are. The background that I would make up about fighting in Rhodesia's war and blah, you know, because I know some historical facts that would have, that was interesting to me. But in the end, not the story I want to tell. It doesn't have to be true.

Jacob (01:55:41)
not true.

I don't mean true as an actor, I mean like true to you.

ThisGirlTV (01:55:48)
Oh yeah, it's not true to me. So I think that if you wanna tell this story, if you think that you have what you need to tell the story of another group or identity that you are not associated with, then, you know, do you boo. But you gotta take whatever comes from it too.

Jacob (01:56:05)
So it seems like.

I've probably told this story a million times, but it's always, it just stuck with me. When I first moved here and I was trying to get involved in the comedy scene and getting to know people and trying it out for myself, the first open mic I went to, when we had moved there, we moved like two months after a mall shooting. A local mall. At a local mall. Or it could have been sooner than that.

ThisGirlTV (01:56:18)
Mm-hmm.

Mmm... Mm-hmm.

Right.

Jacob (01:56:30)
and I was at the open mic and the guy took everyone outside and just gave them the rules. This is what we're gonna do. You're going to call up, you get a light, you gotta get down. He brought up the shooting. He's like, look, you want, I'm not gonna tell you what to talk about. So if you want to tell a joke about the shooting, go for it, but it better be funny. And if it's not, yeah, like we're gonna take you off the stage.

ThisGirlTV (01:56:51)
Yeah.

The lights coming on immediately. You getting the fuck off the stage.

Jacob (01:56:59)
you're done. So it's like you can take that chance to write that story about those people. But if you don't think you can actually hit the landing, which I need you to think, can you hit the landing, you need to be prepared for whatever consequences come from that. So that seems to be your opinion. A lot of people, because I do think there is a large group of people who do get upset about certain things. Like...

ThisGirlTV (01:57:01)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

Right?

Right. That's my take. Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Jacob (01:57:26)

Like I think it was justifiable for Emma Stone to get in trouble for that, making that Cameron Crowe movie where she was supposed to be half Asian. Like why are we casting Emma Stone as a half Asian? Um, but I, but for me, the one that everybody got on board with that I was, I'm still, I still don't know is Scarlett Johansson and Ghost in the Shell.

ThisGirlTV (01:57:39)
Mm.

Jacob (01:57:52)
Because with it being an anime, they draw big eyes. It's not clear to me. And there are clearly not just Asian people in the cartoon. I think her guy had blonde hair. I mean, he had weird eyes. He had eye implants, so you can't tell. And there are people, and I'm a lot more sympathetic to stuff like this. There are people who are like, a disabled person could have played that person in the wheelchair. Or...

ThisGirlTV (01:58:00)
Yeah.

Jacob (01:58:21)
blind person because there's not a lot of opportunities. I mean beyond white supremacy this is able ableism like there aren't a lot of there's a lot of roles because of their abilities that they are limited from being on the play. So when you do come across something that they can do and you give it to someone who isn't from that I do

ThisGirlTV (01:58:25)
Right.

Ableism, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Why block them out of it completely?

Jacob (01:58:49)
Yeah, that's the one I'm the most sympathetic to. So we're talking acting right now, not necessarily writing, but yeah, I do agree. Like...

ThisGirlTV (01:58:54)
Yeah.

But that was a choice to cast, you know, the director or the show runner that's running the show are making choices very similar to what writers make when they sit down to start and complete a book. And so those choices are things that you have to live with including the criticism of it. I mean, like we're doing, we're talking about this stuff, right? Because we watch so many stories being told.

and we have our opinions about them and how the world should work and what is and isn't right and things like that, right? But like, we could be, you know, like somebody could be upset with me for talking about dark skin people. You're fair, you da, you know, like why do you wanna see more? Like, don't you want your story told? Well, my story has been told a million fucking times. And if I tell my story, my story includes how I wanted to be dark too. So, you know, I mean.

Jacob (01:59:49)
Thanks for watching!

ThisGirlTV (01:59:56)
This is not about, it's not necessarily about what is or isn't true for you. But like you said, which landings can you stick? And do you have skin tough enough to do that? Tell a story from a perspective that you're not familiar with. And black people can write about white people and nobody seems to have a problem with it. But also because we are so

and undated with whiteness, we can do it believably because we see it all fucking time.

Jacob (02:00:31)
it's not yeah well yeah it's like I don't think Neil Gaiman's wrong for like if we if we stuck to a hard rule of no you shouldn't right then Neil Gaiman couldn't write American Gods or he would write it all white and then you'd be like oh some more white people huh Neil so even though he's gonna be yeah so yeah

ThisGirlTV (02:00:39)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Right. He gets criticized no matter what he does. Now he's a fantastic writer. I'm not criticizing him at all.

Jacob (02:00:59)
I take it on a case by case basis. And I think definitely when you had another option, yeah, I'm probably going to hold it against you a little bit.

ThisGirlTV (02:01:01)
I mean, that's same.

Right, right, right. When you could have done something differently and you didn't, this is what you did? Yeah. Ha ha ha.

Jacob (02:01:13)
Yeah. No, I'm not going to get mad if James Cameron doesn't actually hire a Navi because they don't exist. So you can't do that. But maybe write something besides Fern Valley too. Um.

ThisGirlTV (02:01:26)
Pfft hehe

I mean, or like one of the things I heard about Avatar is that he wanted to use actual native languages. And then, so when people came to him with languages that he could possibly use, he was like, this is too complicated and then made up his own one. Like, are you fucking kidding me, dude?

Jacob (02:01:53)
I can't help but bring up Chakotay.

which I'm very upset about as a Star Trek fan and the Star Trek representative about how fucked that character is. Like, it's so I mean, here's a group that wanted to do it right. So they hired a guy to be their supervisor. And he was just lying. He was bullsh- he had he was I can't remember the guy's actual creds, but he had nothing to do with native culture. And so he was just telling them whatever they wanted.

ThisGirlTV (02:01:58)
Oh, from Voyager?

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Was it a white guy that Luke a guy that looked white and he oh I actually do remember that because Like he kept saying he was native and doing all this stuff And then it's just like as people did more and more research They they were just like, um, we can't find a native in your background

Jacob (02:02:26)
Yeah.

And it so sucks because that would have been cool. A native, like not only a native representation within, I mean, again, like you, the things that I liked that they tried to, and they were well-meaning with Chakotay because they tried to bridge that gap of modernity, I mean, futurism with.

ThisGirlTV (02:02:45)
That would have been cool.

Jacob (02:03:07)
the old ways, if you

will. I don't want to character- use a word, a bad word, a white supremacist characterization word, but those are conflicts and they tried- he is a character that could bridge that and even show us something as an analogy in our current times and stuff like that. He could have been such a great character and not only he's the first officer- oh what I fuck up.

ThisGirlTV (02:03:09)
Yeah.

Hehe

Mm-hmm.

But like think about what you just said though. It's not that you fucked it up, but it's just like think about it. So you said bridging the gap between the old ways, and I'm not talking about the term, the phraseology, and now, right? But like it's because the old ways, yeah. And so it's like, so like.

Jacob (02:03:42)
Yes.

Yeah, I get you what you're saying. No, I did fuck up. The assumption that current is the right way, and juxtaposition the old ways to something that either isn't around now, which if the culture is allowed to exist on its own, it would be. So, you know, I understand. I know, like, un-normative? I'm not laughing at the concept, I don't know what else to call it, but I, you know, I did fuck up. And that's...

ThisGirlTV (02:03:55)
Right.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Right.

No, I mean, yeah, exactly, but like-

Well, but it's not even that. That's how insidious it is. You know, when people who are actually trying to have a good conversation and discussion, we still have to fight against the white supremacy that exists in us, even as, you know, like we discuss the white supremacy that exists in others. So anyway, we've been talking for a while. My voice sounds like this.

Jacob (02:04:46)
Um, I

ThisGirlTV (02:04:47)
If you had a larger point.

Jacob (02:04:51)
I can't help. So we've talked about the problems that exist. And we don't know that we are not privy to the why, other than what we can sort of put together ourselves. And my running thesis, with capitalism specifically, which is held up by white superstructure, is that white supremacist superstructure is the end and vice versa.

ThisGirlTV (02:05:00)
Right.

Jacob (02:05:16)
is that you can criticize capitalism all day, you can criticize white supremacy all day, but you are not allowed to show a substitution, and so a viable substitution. And so one of the reasons why I can't help but think that we don't get uh indigenous, well take specifically we didn't get to see what

ThisGirlTV (02:05:16)
I'm sorry.

Right.

something that looks like it might actually work.

infinite diversity, infinite combinations.

Jacob (02:05:45)
prey looked like untampered by white colonials is because then we'd have to show what that looks like. And even if it's the unavoidable takeover of capitalism on whatever structure is there, and it's seen as a villain, because again it can be critiqued.

ThisGirlTV (02:05:50)
Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Jacob (02:06:13)
they don't give a shit if you think they're bad. As long as you can call me whatever you want, as long as you don't call me late for dinner, it's like that. And so we have a white supremacist capitalist civilization in monoculture. And if you show anything that's viable or attractive outside of that, again, that's viable. Cause we can do automated gay communism in Star Trek. But

ThisGirlTV (02:06:15)
Right.

Mm-hmm. Ha ha ha!

Right.

Jacob (02:06:41)
But replicators don't exist. Dian lithium crystals ain't your new shit. So you can show that, but that's not viable. But if we show, I mean, we hear all the time, capitalism is human nature. But then if we show you civilizations that existed outside of it and without it, we tell you that you have to prioritize. How do you have a civilization if you don't have a border? How do you have a civilization if you don't have private property rights?

ThisGirlTV (02:06:43)
Right.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Jacob (02:07:10)
How do you even begin to adjust law and justice when then a society doesn't have those things? So we can't show you what that would look like because that existed multiple times, in multiple places, in multiple parts of history. Capitalism is only 600 years old, less than that. So the reason why we can't go back and show you what this village looked like and how they operated and do a little bit of world building.

ThisGirlTV (02:07:17)
Mm-hmm.

You're right.

Yeah.

Jacob (02:07:39)
is because then we'd be showing you what things could be like.

ThisGirlTV (02:07:43)
Right. And what we destroyed. And when I say we, I don't mean me. Ha ha ha.

Jacob (02:07:46)
Yes.

And again, we can show you us destroying them. Oh, God damn it. Buy the t-shirt that says, fuck the destroyers. Squid Game again. Late stage capitalism. That made a lot of money. And then the reality show. Yeah. So I think I can't help but think.

ThisGirlTV (02:07:58)
Right. Ha ha ha.

Uh... Yeah. A lot of money. And now they have a game! Hehehehe!

Jacob (02:08:12)
in my current understanding of how things work and how these systems uphold each other and reinforce and reproduce each other is that that's what it is because if we because another part of white supremacy is like i did subliminally by saying old ways backwards uncivilized not modern using modern as an implication of certain things as a positive

ThisGirlTV (02:08:32)
Mm-hmm

Right.

Jacob (02:08:43)
and also press of giving up the idea that these things can exist simultaneously. Like you can't show that. It has to be they're backwards, they're less than, they're worse. Oh we didn't have capitalism, you didn't have capitalism or private property rights in some of these indigenous lands but you also didn't have MRI machines.

ThisGirlTV (02:08:51)
Right.

Right?

Jacob (02:09:13)
And you know, if they were so superior, and if they were so superior, then how did we just take them over? Which always comes is the always it can't not be the answer. Eventually, that's what it just comes down to is racism. So I can't help but think that that's why we don't get the diversity that we would want. And any diversity that we're allowed to get.

ThisGirlTV (02:09:13)
They were dying from dysentery, Jacob.

Jacob (02:09:41)
like the Black-ish producer getting everything that he wants. But Spike Lee's got to film a movie about how Dumbo's racist or how racist America really is on a camcorder is because the system will only allow certain things to be told. Again something we talked about in our last episode we've repeated before. They're not going to give you the tools to tear down the system.

ThisGirlTV (02:09:50)
Hehe

Mm-hmm.

America's so racist

Right.

Jacob (02:10:13)
So anything you do happen to see, like Squid Game, like things that you think are like so, and this is why you can't rely, like again, media is a tool, but it's not the revolution. And I think sometimes that gets lost, especially on the internet.

ThisGirlTV (02:10:25)
Yeah.

Right. Well, yeah, I really, I fully believe that a lot of liberals are trying to use media to be that what you just said, instead of just a talking point within it, right? And it make them look dumb. I mean, like it just does. Cause you know what? We're not fucking Harry Potter, Alan.

Jacob (02:10:41)
revolution.

Yeah, LARP.

Yeah.

ThisGirlTV (02:10:59)
Anyway.

Jacob (02:11:00)
Anyway, so that's my grand point at the end of this, is that I would like it, but I don't think it would take another system to give us everything we want.

ThisGirlTV (02:11:10)
I think I support that statement. So what do you guys think? Let us know.

Jacob (02:11:18)
Yeah, type it in the, we have a Facebook group, the show, when the show's happening, when the show's not happening, just go to Facebook and type in front of the telly. We are the purple icon with the television in it. I gotta catch up on my trailers.

ThisGirlTV (02:11:32)
Yes, I get to do so much shit. And also you can email us at infrontofthetelly@gmail.com currently. Eventually it will be in front of the tele.com, but, or me at infr But currently if you have something to say, wanna

Talk to us, want to let us know something. Facebook group is great. Come join us there or send us an email. So where can the people find you?

Jacob (02:12:10)
Oh, I am back to my old ways of pushing my artwork right now. You still don't have puppy ganda up because I'm still trying to build what that, the inventory for that. Uh, I am working on that currently and you can see me working on that with a dog a day picture. Um, and you can see that on Facebook, D Jacob art.

ThisGirlTV (02:12:14)
Hehehe

Right.

Jacob (02:12:36)
You can also see that on Instagram at D Jacob Art. And if you really wanna help me out, you can see that on my Patreon, patreon.com slash D Jacob Art. On my Patreon, which is where I really want you to go, you can not only see my dog a day pictures, but you can see the larger projects that I'm working on.

and you can sign up for the $10 tier and actually see tutorials and low res Photoshop files so you can reverse engineer how I do what I do. And if you want to make sure that I'm actually going to put out content, I support that way of thinking.

ThisGirlTV (02:13:21)
Hehehehe

Jacob (02:13:23)
you can sign up for a seven day free trial. And right now I'm sharing a lot. I've had an artist block that I worked my way out of doing some wrestling art. So I've got, I just started releasing my Hulk Hogan picture. I've already released the progress of my rock and...

ThisGirlTV (02:13:46)
I have to say that I saw your post on Patreon labeled 26 inch pythons and I was afraid to open it. Ha ha ha.

Jacob (02:13:59)
24 inch and that's what Hogan would call his arms. I was trying not to do just straightforward, Hogan. Okay.

ThisGirlTV (02:14:01)
Yeah.

Yeah, no, I get it. And, but I just thought that was funny to say.

Jacob (02:14:11)
Yeah, I guess it could be referencing something else. But yeah, so you can follow me at all the places at D Jacob Art, A-R-T.

ThisGirlTV (02:14:15)
Yes.

And you can find me, of course, on the interwebs at In Front of the Telly.

So yeah, thanks for listening everyone. We'll be watching.

Jacob (02:14:32)
And remember.

ThisGirlTV (02:14:39)
Alright, I am going to stop.